The Ron Paul Revolution: Not Televised, But Alive and Well
Submitted by MarcMadness on Tue, 04/17/2012 - 11:44If you’re reading this blog post right now, there are a few things I can safely assume about you. Firstly, you are probably very intelligent! It’s also likely that you get at least a decent portion of your news from the internet, whether it’s alternative news sources like The Huffington Post or The Drudge Report or various forms of social media such as Twitter and Facebook. This is commonplace for every advertiser’s favorite demographic, the beloved “18-34″‘s. It’s easy for us to forget there is still a large portion of the populace whose primary news source is the so-called “Mainstream Media” (MSM). For those that fall into this category, there is probably no doubt that the general election this coming November will be between Barack Obama and Mitt Romney. After all, now that Rick Santorum has suspended his campaign, there is nothing to stop Romney from seizing the nomination…right?
Well, not exactly. While it’s true that Romney has a large lead in the delegate count, the numbers that the MSM is using are largely guesses. Many states do not bind their delegates based on the ‘straw poll’ results, and in many of those states Romney will likely not be getting the delegates the MSM is assuming he will. For one example we can look at Iowa, where CNN is reporting that Santorum, Paul, and Romney are each getting 7 delegates , while giving Gingrich 2. They are basing these results on the Iowa Straw Paul, in which Santorum, Paul and Romney essentially tied for first, while Gingrich finished a distant fourth. However, these numbers are irrelevant. Like with many other caucus states, Iowa does not bind it’s delegates based on the straw vote. Instead, delegates are determined through a series of conventions at the local, county and state level. It is the delegates elected from this process that eventually go on to the GOP Convention in Tampa and vote for their nominee for President. The body that elects these national delegates in Iowa recently voted A.J. Spiker, the former head of Ron Paul’s Iowa campaign, as the new head of the state Iowa State GOP. Do we really think that this same body is only going to send 7 Ron Paul delegates to Tampa? For the MSM to report delegates based on the straw vote is either a sinister deception or simple lack of good journalism, both of which would be equally easy to believe.
NOTE: The links don't seem to be working with HTML, so you can copy and paste here for the full article if the link below doesn't work.
http://lionsofliberty.com/2012/04/16/ron-paul-revolution-not...
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Honest Ron Paul!
http://www.dailypaul.com/228347/vote-for-honest-ron
Good post lions, sorry for the
unfortunate negativity in the thread below.
Our Numbers Grow!
Be happy in that, and God willing, we will have a say in Tampa! If not win it.
I for one vote that if Florida somehow doesn't work out, if the evil RNC manages to push a robama/omney ticket.....then Paul should go 3rd party.
I know many dems who will vote for Paul in a general over Obama, and so many more...just keep spreading the word!
Paulista Uprising in Georgia Against NDAA
The resolution passed with a 95% majority. So did the "End the Fed" resolution that followed this one:
http://goo.gl/O69We
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMAxieKFvss
fixed the link
I didn't realize the link to the full article wasn't working with HTML. I've copied and pasted the link directly now.
http://lionsofliberty.com/
The MSM, their lies,and the Ron Paul campaign
Those people lie about EVERYTHING!!
That they should be less than professionally honest and competent about the Ron Paul campaign should surprise nobody. ,Most of them wouldn't know how to cover our campaign even if they wanted to.
Ron Paul: "Audit, and then end, the FED"
MSM journalist:"Aren't you too old to run for President, Dr.Paul?"
Ron Paul: Iimplement an America First foreign policy and national defence"
MSM Journalist: "Will you support Mitt Romney for President?"
I could continue, but I have made my point. The so-called newsmedia is useless when it is not stupid,and stupid when it isn't useless. We should, and must, find something better!
PEACE AND FREEDOM!!
"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is not to be attacked successfully, it is to be defended badly". F. Bastiat
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, finally they attack you, and then you win"! Mohandas Gandhi
then subtract 7 from Romney's total
The media projections are obviously wrong, but there are plenty of places to get a good sense of where the race is. The media may be factoring in 7 for Romney, but let's assume he gets 0. They're assuming 6 in Minnesota and he may get 0. They assumed 12 in Colorado and he got 13. They figured 7 in North Dakota and he got 20. Add all those states up and he's at a +1 relative to the projected count. So even though they're wrong on a lot of the data, I fail to see how it is a major overestimate of Romney's delegates.
In Wyoming Romney outperformed his projected numbers. In Maine he may underperform. Those could balance out. He might not do quite as well in Alaska but his number wouldn't move by much. Call those states a wash as well.
Maybe you take some away from him in Washington, where he had a decent chunk. But are there really that many net delegates that he is going to lose through this process? It's nearly certain that Ron Paul is going to pick up a bunch of delegates in these states, but it's not necessarily true that he's going to take a game-changing number from Romney.
Your lack of understanding
Your lack of understanding the actual processes of both Primaries and Caucus' is quite indicative of Romney supporters. Let me show you how Romney lost 38 delegates in one State.
Lets look at Florida: the News says Romney got 50 delegates; however, if you look at the GOP's 2008 Rules Adopted, you will see that since Florida held their primary before Feb 1st Florida lost half of their delegates, making their total number of delegates 25. Also, since Florida's process was to assign delegates by the Winner Take all idea and they held their Primary before April 1, Florida's Delegates became proportional to the vote count. Since, Romney got 46.4 percent of the vote total, then he will get 46.4 percent of the delegate total which is 11.6 and then rounded up to 12 delegates.
So between Iowa, Minnesota, and Florida Romney already lost 51 delegates which the media is not reporting.
Also, to suppose that just because a State holds a Primary instead of a Caucus that their delegates are automatically going to Romney is naive, because not all States elect their delegates the same way. In PA, 59 of the 72 delegates are elected by the people. If you think that Romney is getting all of them then you will be surprised when the election happens.
You blind followers of the Status Quo GOP, really should learn and understand the Rules, but I am glad that you don't know the rules nor do any of the Status Quo supporters really want to spend that kind of time learning the rules; because if you all did then there might be a problem getting Dr. Paul elected this year. However, as you will all see, Dr. Paul will be the 45th President of THE United States Of America, come January 21, 2013.
I'll break this down piece by piece
Florida actually started at 100. 50 is the result after punishing them for going early. They decided to do WTA and the RNC is respecting that. There was talk about a fight, but they're not going to change it after the fact, no matter how much you beg. Issues like this have been handled in the past - it even went to the Supreme Court - and ultimately the RNC gets to decide. They are listing Romney as getting 50 delegates from Florida on their official count. Sorry. He hasn't lost nearly as many delegates as you wish.
I am quite aware of the differences in how delegates are apportioned in the different primaries. I know that PA is a beauty contest with direct election of delegates (who don't have the candidate name written next to them). I don't at all expect Romney to get all of those delegates. He'll get at least 30, and probably more.
But other primaries are different. Most on 4/24 are awarded winner take all by statewide vote and by congressional district. In the other 4 states that day (CT, NY, DE, RI), Romney will get at least 90% of the delegates. His wins in those states are going to be massive. He'll lose a CD here or there but in total that day he will easily pull in over 150 delegates.
It's funny that you think that no one else understands the delegate rules. I have read up on rules of different states. I have also seen primary results in past states and on average, Romney is beating Paul 40-10. I'm far short of convinced that these proportions are going to change much in Paul's favor. Romney is going to be picking up delegates (and large numbers of them) in nearly every state going forward. He may lose some from his projected counts in states that have already voted and that are going to conventions, but that won't be a major hit on his campaign.
WAKE UP
Santorum dropped out and Paul will be doing much better in the upcoming beauty contests. How do you know Romney will have massive wins? Are you part of the election rigging process? You sound more like a Romney supporter than a believer in liberty!
hthomas
it's not hard to predict these outcomes
Paul will have some level of success in Pennsylvania due to the nature of the contest. Demographics and polls in the other states argue strongly that Romney will have big wins. Of course you never know what will happen, but it's not likely that one would be wrong to predict Romney winning all 5 contests next Tuesday. It has nothing to do with election rigging. It has to do with Romney having a much larger base of support nationwide and in those states specifically.
lol @ Romney maths. Why
lol @ Romney maths. Why should anyone bother to debate you, when you're such an obvious agitprop plant? I can only laugh at your preposterous, delusional political worldview.
"The United States can pay any debt it has because we can always print money to do that." — Alan Greenspan
what is your prediction
for performance in the contests on Tuesday night? What do you expect the popular vote totals to be? What do you expect the bound delegate count to be? You can make a prediction, and I will afterward, and we'll see tomorrow night who is correct.
I have nothing for you but
I have nothing for you but ridicule. You aren't interested in facts or the truth, so you are dismissed. I am not interested in anything you have to say.
"The United States can pay any debt it has because we can always print money to do that." — Alan Greenspan
I hope you're lol tomorrow
I hope you're lol tomorrow night at my math. I'd love to see some hard predictions to the contrary. I'm a moron for thinking Romney wins those races, but you can't provide an alternative prediction so that we can look back afterward and gauge who has a better sense of what voters are going to do? Make a prediction if I'm so obviously delusional. We'll see which one becomes fact tomorrow.
PA
My friend shazar, the problem for our great liberty loving movement is that the blind will probably vote for santorum despite him beeing out of the race.
If Ron Paul would be alone with Mitt Romney on the ballot then the honest Dr. Paul would probably win 63-37.
This way if we dont mobilize the anti romney voters to vote for Paul he will probably only get 34%, Romney 44%, Santorum 16% and the Newt 6%.
Pennsylvania is definitely going to be strange
With the Santorum home state factor, I agree that we'll probably see people voting for him. Then there's the fact that the primary vote doesn't actually matter and voters are just directly electing delegates. On top of that, voters don't see which delegates are in support of which candidates when voting. Those factors make PA the hardest of all the states tomorrow to predict, by far.
I bet Romney gets at least half the delegates there and 50% of the beauty contest vote, but it wouldn't surprise me at all to be completely wrong on this. There's almost no chance he loses the popular vote there, but maybe he does worse on the delegate part. The other states are much more predictable. Romney probably gets around 60% of the vote in the other 4 states, along with almost all the delegates.
yeah romney has it pretty much all wrapped up
and already won. he is the clear winner and there is no way paul can challenge him seriously. He might pick up some delegates but romney is already like the declared nominee.
I think whatever we vote Romney has the majority of the electorat already behind him.
good luck tomorrow
good luck tomorrow
Thanks Willy!
.
Maybe the site where I got
Maybe the site where I got the 50 delegate number, I referred to, already deducted half of Florida's delegates; that is a possibility. However, you still aren't deducting for the GOP rule which made their delegates proportional due to them having their 'Winner Take All' primary before April 1st, which would give Mitt 23 delegates and not 50; unless, that is, you are supportive of the GOP breaking their own rules just to give delegates to Mitt. Are you? Do you have such little faith in Mitt's abilities that you would suggest violating rules just to give him 22 delegates he would otherwise be deprived by following the GOP rules? So, cheating is acceptable to you as long as it's your candidate who benefits? I suppose the worse part about that is that you will then try to claim that others are cheating; boy that is some consistency you have. You are about as consistent as Mitt is; no wonder he is your candidate of choice. Birds of a feather..., and all that.
That seemed a little too accusatory
For what my comment deserved - but maybe I'm reading too much into the "you're a cheater like Mitt" comments.
Everyone, including Ron Paul, knew that Florida was WTA going in. There is no indication they're going to change. If you get them to, then congrats. Romney would lose 27 delegates. That won't hurt.
Go away Shazad
.
2008 GOP Rules Adopted RULE
2008 GOP Rules Adopted
RULE 15
(b) Timing.* (Revised language was adopted
by the Republican National Committee on August 6,
2010)
(1) No primary, caucus, or
convention to elect, select, allocate, or bind delegates to
the national convention shall occur prior to the first
Tuesday in March in the year in which a national
convention is held. Except Iowa, New Hampshire,
South Carolina, and Nevada may begin their processes
at any time on or after February 1 in the year in which a
national convention is held and shall not be subject to
the provisions of paragraph (b)(2) of this rule.
(2) Any presidential primary,
caucus, convention, or other meeting held for the
purpose of selecting delegates to the national
convention which occurs prior to the first day of April
in the year in which the national convention is held,
shall provide for the allocation of delegates on a
proportional basis.
As Sub-Section (2) of Section (b) of RULE 15 states: If a State is to allocate delegates before April 1st, then their delegates are proportional. I did not make this RULE the GOP did; so if they are unwilling to follow their own rule so Mitt could get 27 extra delegates then that must be considered cheating. If you support such actions then you support cheating and therefore must be considered a cheater. I'm sorry, that is just the way it is. I didn't make the rules, but I do believe that if one breaks the rules then they are cheating, since they agreed to the RULES as proven by their entrance into the GOP Presidential Race, which is governed by these RULES.
take it up with Florida, not Romney
Romney's not doing any cheating at all. Blame Florida. All Romney did was win the state by a big margin. He's not choosing how many delegates he gets. You can file a lawsuit against the Florida GOP, and maybe the RNC will consider it. No one should pretend, though, that they didn't know that Florida was planning to allocate all its delegates to the winner. That has been known from Day 1.
If you want to change the allocation after the fact because their planned allocation wasn't by the rules, by all means fight it. You've got an argument that they should change it, and maybe they'd listen. However, Florida has a way around this if this is route you take. There is absolutely no rule stating that they would have to make the result purely proportional. They could easily change their apportionment rules to those used in South Carolina and a lot of other states. They could make it WTA by congressional district (1 per district) with a 25 delegates given to the statewide winner. They just aren't allowed to give 100% to the statewide winner. Since Romney won 22 of 25 CDs, that would make it 47 delegates for Romney and 3 for Gingrich, and they are compliant. So there's no guarantee that this complaint is really going to help you that much in the end.
You said, "They could easily
You said, "They could easily change their apportionment rules to those used in South Carolina and a lot of other states. They could make it WTA by congressional district (1 per district) with a 25 delegates given to the statewide winner." Not after the fact they can't.
Florida's election was on Jan 31, they knew the National GOP RULES would not only cut their delegates in half but also make them proportional if they moved their election up to before Feb 1, but they did it anyway; and then they had the nerve to disregard the RULES.
Yes Florida was WTA, on the condition that they did not hold their election before April 1st, because of the GOP rule.
Nobody can change the rules after the fact, I'm sorry to tell you. They chose to be a WTA on a Statewide basis, they chose to disregard the GOP rules for not only holding their delegate selection before April 1st, but also, by holding their Primary before Feb 1st. and now Mitt will have to suffer the consequences by having less delegates because of it. Everybody, including Florida State GOP, knew the, National GOP Party, rules about delegate distribution since Aug 6 2010 when RULE 15 was adopted. If they choose not to follow it then that is quite telling on the GOP of Florida; and if the National GOP doest enforce their own rules then we certainly know that they have little faith in Mitt, and if Mitt doesn't suggest that Florida allocate their delegates by the National GOP rules then we know three things about him for certain: 1)He doesn't believe rules apply to him -I wonder how he would feel about the limited power the U.S. Constitution gives to the President- maybe the Constitution doesn't apply to him? 2) He might not be so sure that he could win without cheating. 3) He has no integrity or honor.
define "proportional"
There are about 15 different definitions of "proportional" being used in these primaries. Every state that has some sort of proportional allocation of delegates does it differently. Which of the definitions does the rule mandate? If Florida is forced to go proportional, then they can choose their own definition of proportional, just like every other state did.
2008 GOP RULES Adopted RULE
2008 GOP RULES Adopted
RULE NO. 15
Election, Selection, Allocation, or Binding of
Delegates and Alternate Delegates
(c) General
(12) No delegates or alternate
delegates shall be elected, selected, allocated, or bound
pursuant to any Republican Party rule of a state or state
law which materially changes the manner of electing,
selecting, allocating, or binding delegates or alternate
delegates or the date upon which such state Republican
Party holds a presidential primary, caucus, convention,
or meeting for the purpose of voting for a presidential
candidate and/or electing, selecting, allocating, or
binding delegates to the national convention if such
changes were adopted or made effective after October 1
of the year before the year in which the national
convention is to be held. Where it is not possible for a
state Republican Party to certify the manner and the
date upon which it holds a presidential primary, caucus,
convention, or meeting for the purpose of voting for a
presidential candidate and/or electing, selecting,
allocating, or binding delegates to the national
convention in effect in that state on the date and in the
manner provided in paragraph (e) of this rule, the
process for holding the presidential primary, caucus,
convention, or meeting for the purpose of voting for a
presidential candidate and/or electing, selecting,
allocating, or binding delegates to the national
convention shall be conducted in the same manner and
held upon the same date as was used for the
immediately preceding national convention. If it is not
possible to hold a presidential primary, caucus,
convention, or meeting for the purpose of voting for a
presidential candidate and/or electing, selecting,
allocating, or binding delegates to the national
convention upon the same date as was used for the
immediately preceding national convention, then
delegates or alternate delegates shall be elected or
selected by Congressional district or state conventions
pursuant to paragraph (d) of this rule.
(d) Conventions.
Wherever state law permits or the Republican
Party rules of a state require the election of delegates
and alternate delegates by convention or there is no
applicable state law or Republican Party rule, delegates
and alternate delegates to the national convention shall
be elected by Congressional district or state
conventions pursuant to the following rules:
(1) Congressional district or state
conventions shall be called by the Republican state
committee.
(2) Delegates to Congressional
district conventions may be elected in precinct
caucuses, mass meetings, mass conventions, or county
conventions in which only eligible voters in such
precinct, county, or district, as the case may be, shall
vote.
(3) Notices of the call for any such
caucus, meeting, or convention shall be published in a
newspaper or newspapers of general circulation in the
county, district, or state, as the case may be, not less
than fifteen (l5) days prior to the date of such caucus,
meeting, or convention.
(4) No delegates shall be deemed
eligible to participate in any Congressional district or
state convention the purpose of which is to elect or
select delegates to the national convention who are
elected or selected prior to the date of the issuance of
the call of such national convention.
Also, here is why their delegates got cut in half
RULE NO. 16
Enforcement of Rules
(a) If any state or state Republican Party
violates The Rules of the Republican Party relating to
the timing of the election or selection process with the
result that any delegate from that state to the national
convention is bound by statute or rule to vote for a
presidential nominee selected or determined before the
first day of the month in which that state is authorized
by Rule No. 15(b) to vote for a presidential candidate
and/or elect, select, allocate, or bind delegates or
alternate delegates to the national convention, the
number of delegates to the national convention from
that state shall be reduced by fifty percent (50%), and
the corresponding alternate delegates also shall be
reduced by the same percentage. Any sum presenting a
fraction shall be increased to the next whole number.
No delegation shall be reduced to less than two (2)
delegates and a corresponding number of alternates.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________
By these RULES Florida wasn't allowed to elect delegates on before the date which they had done in the previous election, and if they had already assigned delegates then when Florida would/should be forced to re-elect delegates by CD or State Convention -which would be the way they must be selected by Section (d) of RULE 15- then those who were already selected are no longer able to be selected again as delegates.
so does that talk about proportionality?
You were saying Florida is going to have to switch their vote to be proportional, and those rules didn't say anything about that or define proportionality. It sounded like it was saying Florida might have to hold conventions to determine their delegates - but by the time any sort of challenge is brought on this issue it would be too late for that. You better act soon to try to overturn those results. I wouldn't hold my breath and expect a change, though. There is precedent for this from past elections, and it's not for a state to throw out its primary entirely and hold a convention.
Since those RULES were copied
Since those RULES were copied directly from the 2008 GOP RULES Adopted it doesn't directly define proportional except for the fact that it states that any State which violated the rule would have to either hold a CD vote or a State convention to elect delegates. Also, I'm not going to copy and paste the entire rulebook for you, I think you should know that any State which violates the Rules and shows up to Tampa with delegates not acquire in a manner pursuant to the Rules will have serious problems, including the possibility of having no delegates accepted.
If you and your candidate want to potentially alienate the entire State of Florida by not speaking out against their violation of the RULES -which they knew well in advance- then that is up to you. But, just so you know that the committees will be elected in Tampa, and Newt, Santorum, and Paul supporters will be up for spots on those committees and they will ensure that Romney and Florida abides by the RULES which have been in place since 2010; especially since none of the other, candidates, supports actually like Romney.